Passing As Straight: The Interview
Passing as Straight is the brainchild of author Kinyatta E. Gray, travel influencer, author, wife and mother. In a world where kids are coming out younger and younger, Kinyatta wanted to give a platform to black women who, like her, began living their truth as queer women later in life. This resonated deeply with me, as I didn’t start to live publicly as a queer woman until after the age of 35. Kinyatta and her co-authors come from many different walks of life -- from Health Management to Hearing Impairment Advocate -- but their stories have a common thread. They speak of overcoming religious, familial, social, and even economic pressure to step into their truest selves.
While Passing as Straight has six authors, “Bette Porter”, the anonymous church leader and community organizer who still lives as a closeted woman—remains elusive. She declined my request for an interview. Kinyatta, Amanda Ri’Chard, NikoJoe Arnold, Sarina Mack and Shyheta Johnson graciously answered our questions.
How did you come up with the idea of this book?
Kinyatta: I came up with the idea of this book when I was thinking back over the 10 + years I passed as straight in my workplace, and it wasn’t until I got married and knew that once I returned to my office I’d have to face the questions about wedding pictures and honeymoon pictures -- I had to make a decision. I could no longer hide. I no longer wanted to hide. I loved my wife just that much that I wanted to know that I was married to a HER and not a HIM.
When did you first realize you weren't straight?
Kinyatta: I first realized that I wasn’t “straight” in my late teens, early 20s.
NikoJoe: That’s really hard and challenging question for me because I honestly can’t really say when, but what I can say is my attraction for women was always there but never acted on.
Sarina: When I was 20. I had my first attraction to women.
Shyheta: I was 13 years old in a group home when I first discovered my sexuality differences.
Amanda: I questioned my sexuality since i was a child. When i started college i finally acted on my feelings and began to engage with the same sex.
What was the hardest part of being in the closet?
Kinyatta: The hardest part was hiding the person that I love while everyone around me could speak proudly about their relationships and family.
NikoJoe: The hardest part of being in the closet for me was not understanding my attraction to women and not being able to talk about it. I was afraid to chat about my attraction to women openly. I didn’t think anybody would understand.
Sarina: Not being true to myself and living a lie to satisfy the needs of family, friends, or foes, none of which whom deserved my sacrifice of living my truth.
Shyheta: The hardest part about being in the closet was not being able to be free to be myself.
Amanda: The hardest part was being envious of seeing others be out and open. I wanted to be out too but feared judgment.
How did you navigate romantic relationships as a closeted woman? Did you choose partners who were closeted as well?
Kinyatta: The 2 or 3 women I dated prior to my wife were “out”. However, they maintained very low profiles and didn’t social much, and didn’t feel a need to flaunt our relationship [per se], so it was very easy to continue hiding my sexual orientation.
NikoJoe: I dated men and men only to hide my sexuality. I didn’t have a secret girlfriend hiding in the shadows. Even though I may have tested the waters, that’s about it. [On whether she chose closeted partners,] Absolutely not!
Sarina: I didn’t have any female to female relationships until I completed [coming] out 2 years ago. I was legally married for 14 years to meet societal needs.
Shyheta: There was one woman who I was attracted to and I didn’t tell her because I didn’t want to scare her away and make her uncomfortable in any way.
Amanda: I didn’t post my relationships; I kept it quiet. I always told the person I was dating that I’m bisexual. Nobody else.
Which internal factors kept you from disclosing your sexuality to the people in your life? Which external factors?
Kinyatta: There were not many internal factors. The external factors related to loss of friends, love and support. Loss of status or being respected/admired/revered in my workplace.
NikoJoe: I internalized a lot out of fear. I was afraid of disappointing my parents and my kids.
Sarina: My spiritual walk (my connection to my lord above), disappointing my mom, and/or hurting my children. I had a misconception that lesbians all presented as hyper-masculine and I desired the softness and caress of a woman.
Shyheta: What kept me from speaking up about my sexuality was that…people are so judgmental.
Amanda: Internal factor -- my faith. I’m Catholic and I always thought I would marry in a Catholic Church. External factor -- judgement of family and friends. Losing relationships.
Looking back, what was the defining event that made you decide to come out of the closet?
Kinyatta: The defining moment was when I decided that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with my then long-term partner. I knew that once we were married, I no longer wanted to hide her -- I wanted to be free. I didn’t want to have to look over my shoulder or worry about who my life would offend. I loved her that much that I weighed all the factors (good bad and indifferent) and chose her. I chose to live my life openly with her.
NikoJoe: Meeting someone who was patient and help me with my battles of my sexuality. When I slowly told friends and family, the acceptance allowed me also to be free.
Sarina: Well, 2.5 years ago mi abuelo (my grandfather) passed away and I went into a period of transformation…I desired to be free and decided to change anything or anyone that wasn’t for me.
Amanda: I entered a relationship with a woman I truly loved. I wanted us to be accepted and for everyone to finally see me the happiest I’ve ever been.
When you came out, what were your fears and expectations?
Kinyatta: I have a very small network of friends. Those closest to me already knew. However, most of my friends I met as a teenager growing up in the church. So many of my friends were raised (like I was) to believe that same-sex relationships were an abomination and a number of them had grown up, married men and started families. Therefore, I feared loss of friendships and support since our lives were vastly different.
I also feared that I would be treated differently in the workplace. For over 10 years, my co-workers presumed I was straight, and I never gave them a reason to think otherwise. So, it was very challenging for me because I was very concerned how they would respond to me upon learning the truth.
I had very low expectations because for years I had been privy to conversations and people’s thoughts and opinions about same sex relationships – and most of the time it wasn’t favorable. I received a few surprises though – there were some people who were incredibly supportive that I didn’t think would be, and some of my closest “friends” that I thought would be supportive – ended up turning their back on me.
NikoJoe: My only fear was disappointing my mom, my parents have always dreamed of walking me down the aisle to my husband, but that’s not happening. I didn’t have any expectations.
Sarina: I really did not have any fears; at this point, I was living for myself and not for anyone else. I expected to just ‘BE’; happy, free, and at peace – all of which I am.
Amanda: I feared losing friends and being talked about. But I was ok with it to an extent because of my happiness.
If you could pick a different time in your life to come out, would you have, and when would it have been?
Kinyatta: I would not have chosen a different time; I think my life went exactly the way it was supposed to go.
NikoJoe: I just recently came out, so of course I wish I would’ve been came out. I probably would’ve been married and settled by now. [NikoJoe shrugs.]
Sarina: No, I think that I ‘came out’ when I was destined to. I had lived the “American Dream”; the husband, the kids, the dog, and the white picket fence.
Shyheta: That time would have been when I was in the group home with “Kathy.”
Amanda: Yes, I would have done it years ago. When I came out a lot of people assumed it was a phase. They also thought it was a result of a bad breakup.
“...I had lived the “American Dream”; the husband, the kids, the dog, and the white picket fence.”
Did you receive any backlash from family and friends when you came out? How have they adjusted to you living publicly as a queer woman?
Kinyatta: Yes, and I discuss this in my book, so I definitely hope that your audience will check there for my response to this question. One thing I will share though is that, decisions to come out may impact your children as well. When I decided to live a more open life, my daughter was teased in school about my sexual orientation and it took a lot of intervention to help her to heal and to move past the teasing. Eventually, as she got older and started high school, she befriended a number of LQBTQ teens and had a heart for them and was very supportive of all her friends. The time period before was very challenging and something that we didn’t expect or think would happen to our children.
NikoJoe: No, not really my kids were fine. My mom still struggling with it to this day, but I’m the youngest and her only girl so she wouldn’t give me up for the world.
Sarina: I did not receive any backlash or experience any issues. Those that matter, love me and accept me for who I am, not for who I choose to love. It is as if my life has been aligned to my purpose.
Shyheta: I’m just coming out so I have no backlash yet, and I will be ready for whatever comes my way.
Amanda: I was mostly supported by my family and friends. A few definitely treat me differently but I’m strong enough to not care as much. Most of my friends and family are in the Midwest, I live in DC so they don’t really have to adjust since it’s not something they see or think about often.
Do you regret not coming out sooner?
Kinyatta: Not at all.
NikoJoe: I do regret it because it made me miserable being in the closet.
Sarina: No, I came out when I was destined to.
Amanda: I don’t regret it. Everything happens for a reason.
Would you date a closeted woman at this point in your life?
NikoJoe: I would not date a closeted [woman.]
Sarina: No.
Shyheta: I wouldn’t mind dating someone who’s not ready to come out because I’d understand what they are going through. I honestly don’t think I would have come out until I saw Kinyatta offering this opportunity to us to do so. Everyone has their own pace and they will set themselves free if they hang out long enough. I’m bisexual, so it wouldn’t bother me.
Amanda: Yes, I would if the connection was there.
As a community, what can we do better or differently for individuals who haven't come out?
Kinyatta: As a community I think we can continue to share our experiences and what that process was like for us. I think that people have the right to live their lives according to their own convictions. I’m the only one who has to walk in my shoes, so it’s not for me to tell you to “come out” or stay in or whatever. It’s a personal decision -- and all we can do is support our brothers and sisters no matter what decision they arrive to and think is best for their lives.
NikoJoe: I feel like acceptance is the key. Knowing it’s ok and you’re accepted regardless of your sexuality it will make it easier to live freely.
Sarina: Provide a safe place for individuals to be who they are without the pressures of labels or marginalizing conversations.
Amanda: We can ensure we are providing support better. I feel as a bisexual woman I deal with a lot of negative energy from men and women. It’s as if everyone thinks I’m confused because I am not on one side.
“I’m the only one who has to walk in my shoes, so it’s not for me to tell you to “come out” or stay in or whatever. It’s a personal decision — and all we can do is support our brothers and sisters no matter what decision they arrive to and think is best for their lives.”
What advice would you give a lesbian who is still closeted?
Kinyatta: I would advise anyone to dig deep and evaluate the reasons for staying in the closet. The reasons can range from embarrassment, your morals and values, your career or even a fear for your life in your community. I think that once you can identify what’s keeping you in the closet perhaps the next step could be identifying strategies that will allow you to live the life that you really want to live.
NikoJoe: Live your truth; life is so much easier when you’re free.
Sarina: Free yourself and be who you are. Be unapologetically YOU- it is freeing and transformative!
“There’s nothing wrong with us.”
Shyheta: My advice to a woman that’s still hiding their truth would be free yourself. That’s why we, the six authors, have the courage to do this project: to help others to understand they are not alone and there’s nothing wrong with us. We just like other woman and there’s nothing bad about that. I encourage every woman to set themselves free because it feels good.
Amanda: It’s your life. Do not allow anyone to control your happiness.
Are there any difficulties you have discovered living openly as a queer, black woman?
Kinyatta: Mostly, my life has been pretty uneventful. My wife and I will get the occasional stares, and men will give me 2nd looks, some will shake their heads like they pity me [Kinyatta laughs] and then there have been times when “friends” would say things like “I don’t support gay marriage, but I support you”. I don’t know what to make of that, but I don’t force anything on anyone just like I don’t want anyone imposing their values on me. I also find it somewhat awkward at times mingling in straight circles because while the wives interact with me just fine, I notice that men have a hard time connecting with [my] wife. The most secure men don’t – but men that may not be comfortable with same sex relationships have a hard time mingling. So, we are very selective when choosing whom, when and where we socialize. We are at a point in our lives where we just want to enjoy life, great company and conversation – if we can’t achieve that in different social circles – we have each other and we’re okay with that.
NikoJoe: Yes, for me it’s the comments, opinions and the stares! My DM be popping with the ignorance from men! When someone finds out I’m lesbian face to face the mouth drops like it’s such a big deal! For some reason people (especially men) seem to think looks are associated with being lesbian. Hence “you’re too pretty to be gay” or “God put you on this earth to be with a man.”
Sarina: Intelligent conversations with men have proven difficult. The ignorant assumptions from men that I’ve been scorned or I haven’t had the best sex… or my favorite, “you’ll be back… it’s a phase”. The last is that my choice somehow threatens their sexuality. Their insecurities are put on full display and their egos are hurt because they never had a chance.
Amanda: Now that I’m out I have noticed women looking at me differently. Some making comments as if I want them simply because I’m bisexual. Aside from that, my life has not changed much since coming out, minus a few shifted relationships. I’m still happy, my son is happy and life continues on.
Thank you to Kinyatta, NikoJoe, Sarina, Shyheta and Amanda for this wonderful, insightful interview. “Passing As Straight” is available now on pre-order, and drops on March 10, 2020!
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Kinyatta Gray is also the author of 30 Days: Surviving the Trauma and Unexpected Loss of a Single Parent as an Only Child. Her website is kinyattagray.com.
L.M. Bennett is the author of The Accidental Tsundere: Dating for Late Bloomers, Loners and Misfits, a humorous tale of coming into sexuality later in life, and the upcoming black lesbian fiction anthology, Black Cherry. You’re kinda here already, soooo…